[margaret smith]

All very interesting reading cant beleave how you can find it all Hephaestion what a family

[Hephaestion]

Originally Posted by margaret smith

All very interesting reading cant beleave how you can find it all Hephaestion what a family

It couldn´t get any sicker or depraved Margaret! No wonder Sanford Clark wanted to end the bloodline. That poor man!


Christine Collin´s attorney who is seen in the movie, did not have such a happy ending either.
He committed suicide in 1957!


S.S Hahn played by Geoffrey Pierson.

June 26, 1957
Los Angeles

The lawyer drove up to the cabin in Tick Canyon, north of Saugus, in his Cadillac. He should have been home in Beverly Hills by now, but he phoned his wife, Mary, that he was having dinner with a client.
He parked the Cadillac next to the cabin and left his jaunty straw "boater" hat in the back seat. Maybe he sat in one of the chairs next to the pool for a while--perhaps all night. Then he put his glasses under the chair, took off his coat, with $109 in loose bills in the pocket, and laid it on the chair, along with his white shirt and tie, and a folder containing his identification cards.
Then he tied one end of a rope around his neck, threaded the other end through two concrete blocks and jumped into the deep end of the pool. That's where he was found by 17-year-old Bob Nelson, a neighbor who had been hired to do some chores around the cabin.
Sammy "S.S." Hahn, 68, a Russian immigrant, is an obscure figure today, but at the time of his death, he was a well-known attorney who handled some of the most famous clients in Los Angeles, including Aimee Semple McPherson and murderess Louise Peete, one of only three women to be executed in California. A graduate of USC's law school, Hahn was originally known for his defense work in high-profile criminal cases but later specialized in divorces.
He earned his nickname, "The Corporal," during a sharp courtroom exchange with Col. William H. Neblett, who protested when Hahn continually referred to him as "Mr. Neblett" instead of "Col. Neblett." "Your honor, Hahn said, "if my opponent insists on his military rank, so shall I. Henceforth, I respectfully request that I be addressed as Cpl. Hahn."
Hahn's apparent suicide puzzled his many friends and devastated his wife, Mary, whom he married in September 1954. Hahn's wife of 36 years, Teresa, had died in May 1954. Some people speculated that Hahn's death was not a suicide, especially because he left no note, but medical examiner Dr. Gerald K. Ridge found that his death was an uncomplicated case of asphyxiation.
Mourners attending his funeral at Forest Lawn in Glendale, conducted by Rabbi Samson Levey, included attorney Jerry Giesler and Judges Thurmond Clark, Henry Draeger, Larry Doyle and Mark Brandler. Pallbearers were members of American Legion Post 253 of Beverly Hills.

[Hephaestion]

Jason Butler Harner as Gordon Stewart Northcott in Changeling.

Canadian born in 1908, Northcott would later claim that his father sodomized him at age ten. The old man finished his life in a lunatic asylum, and one of Northcott's paternal uncles died years later, in San Quentin, while serving a life term for murder. A homosexual sadist in the mold of Dean Corll and John Gacy, by age 21, Northcott was living on a poultry ranch near Riverside, California, sharing quarters with his mother and a 15-year-old nephew, Sanford Clark. For years, Northcott mixed business with pleasure in Riverside, abducting boys and hiding them out on his ranch, renting his victims to wealthy Southern California pedophiles. When he tired of the boys, they were shot or brained with an ax, their flesh dissolved with quick lime and their bones transported to the desert for disposal. Only one was ever found - a headless, teenage Mexican, discovered near La Puente during February 1928 - but homicide detectives identified three other victims. Walter Collins disappeared from home on March 10, 1928, and Northcott's mother was convicted of his death, but evidence suggests that she was acting under orders from her son. Twelve-year-old Lewis Winslow and his brother Nelson, 10, vanished from Pomona on May 16, 1928, and Northcott was later condemned for their murders, despite the absence of bodies. Gordon might have gone on raping and killing indefinitely, but in the summer of 1928, he visited the district attorney's office, complaining about a neighbor's "profane and violent" behavior. The outbursts reportedly upset his nephew, who was "training for the priesthood" by tending chickens at age 15. Under investigation, the neighbor recalled seeing Gordon beat Clark on occasion, and he urged detectives to "find out what goes on" at Northcott's ranch. Immigration officials struck first, taking Clark into custody on a complaint from his Canadian parents, and the boy regaled authorities with tales of murder, pointing out newly-excavated "grave sites" on the ranch. Detectives dug up blood-soaked earth, unearthing human ankle bones and fingers on September 17. They also found a bloodstained ax and hatchet on the premises, that Clark said had been used on human prey, as well as chickens. Northcott fled to Canada, but he was captured there and extradited back to Riverside. His mother claimed responsibility for slaying Walter Collins, but Clark fingered Gordon as the actual killer. Convicted on three counts of murder, including the Winslow brothers and the anonymous Mexican, Northcott was sentenced to death. Spared by her sex, his mother received a life sentence in the Collins case. Marking time at San Quentin, Northcott alternated between protestations of innocence and detailed confessions to the murder of "18 or 19, maybe 20" victims. A pathological liar who cherished the spotlight, he several times offered to point out remains of more victims, always reneging at the last moment. (Northcott also named several of his wealthy "customers" at the ranch, but their identities were never published.) Warden Duffy recalled his conversations with Northcott as "a lurid account of mass murder, sodomy, oral copulation, and torture so vivid it made my flesh creep." Northcott mounted the gallows on October 2, 1930, finally quailing in the face of death. Before the trap was sprung, he screamed, "A prayer! Please, say a prayer for me!"

Gordon Stewart Northcott at age 10. From the cradle to the present, Northcott always was the pet of his mother, according to relatives, and was petted and pampered. This photo shows him when he lived on a farm in the wide open spaces of Canada.

Northcott signing out in the “big book” at the Los Angeles County Jail as he departed for Riverside to go on trial as the slayer of the Winslow brothers.

Gordon Northcott led officers to an ash heap containing bones believed to be Walter Collins’ and is aiding a further hunt for the graves of his victims.

Poetic Justice

Category: 1920s, 1930s —
There was a bit of poetic justice in how Gordon Stewart Northcott died on the gallows at San Quentin in 1930. It was certainly not the end he would have chosen, but it was the one that best fit his true persona.
A swaggering, pompous ass with delusions of grandeur and an over-inflated ego, the 24-year-old Canadian immigrant had been convicted of the torture-murders of three young boys on his Riverside, California, farm.
Like many killers, Northcott used the criminal justice process as a chance to relive his crimes and enjoyed being the center of attention during his 15 minutes of fame. He considered himself smarter than most people and was not shy with the press.
“The whole case is simply that of a dissatisfied husband seeking divorce grounds, a movie publicity-mad girl from whose mind all of these ideas came, and a lazy, stupid boy half cracked from reading too many wild west stories,” was how he dismissed his accusers.
When Northcott realized that he would not be the star of his capital murder trial, he fired his attorneys so that he could take center stage to defend himself.
“I told him that he might hang himself,” his attorney told the press after he was fired. “‘Well, it will be worth it. My name will become known all over the world,’” the man said Northcott replied.
Serving as his own attorney, he led one of his surviving victims through a blow-by-blow account of one murder and questioned whether the boy knew the difference between a groan and a death rattle.
“You made me put some mud over his head to stop the noise,” testified Sanford Clark, Northcott’s nephew and foil.
“What kind of noise?” Northcott asked the 16-year-old.
“A groaning noise,” was the response.
“I wonder if you know the difference between a groaning and a gasping noise,” Northcott countered. “What kind of noise was it?”
“It was an awful noise.”
At trial, he repeatedly referred to a large blow-up photograph of the headless remains of one of his victims, forcing courtroom observers to acknowledge his gruesome handiwork.
Northcott laughed as he led investigators on wild goose chases for the graves of his victims and shrugged when the suggestion was made that there were many more undiscovered victims of his cruelty.
The killer called his own father to the stand simply to belittle and badger the man who, by his own admission, could not control his son. Then, just for fun, he convinced his mother — who confessed to participating in at least one of Northcott’s murders — to perjure herself by claiming that she was not his mother but his grandmother. Her daughter, living in British Columbia, strongly denied that this was the case.
Northcott might have avoided detection if not for a visit from an 18-year-old cousin, Jessie Clark, who came from Kamloops, British Columbia, to visit her younger brother Sanford who was working for Northcott on his Southern California chicken ranch.
There she found Sanford living in decrepit conditions on the farm occupied by Northcott, his mother, Sarah Louisa, and his father, Cyrus.
Sanford told Jessie stories of abuse at the hands of Northcott, who was overindulged by his mother and feared by his father. Part of the abuse consisted of helping Northcott dispose of the bodies of boys he killed.
Jessie returned to Canada and told authorities about her brother’s plight, and they contacted Riverside County investigators, who took Sanford Clark into protective custody. That gave Northcott and his mother time to flee north. They escaped over the border and eluded capture for two months.
While the Canadians were looking for the mother and son fugitives, Riverside authorities were excavating the farm based on information provided by Sanford and Cyrus.
Sanford claimed Northcott killed three young boys and a Mexican teenager, and buried their remains in graves about three feet deep. Sifting through the dirt, investigators found a few bones that still contained flesh and hair. They also located a “toenail believed from the foot of a 10-year-old boy,” according to contemporary media reports. It appeared that the bodies had been moved before Northcott fled north, for no complete skeletons were found.
“I knew of the killings but never saw them,” Cyrus told police. “My wife would go to any extreme, not excepting murder, to please her son.”
Sanford told police that Northcott’s first victim was 9-year-old Walter Collins, who had been kidnapped in April 1928. After Walter was dead, Nelson and Louis Winslow were kidnapped, held captive, and then slain. He said Northcott killed the boys with an axe as his mother helped. Under threat of death, Sanford was forced to help dispose of their remains.
The last victim was the Mexican youth, whose decapitated corpse was found dumped along side a rural Riverside County road. His head was never found.
When Northcott was arrested in Canada, he denied his identity, but positive identification was a simple matter. Durin his trip back to Southern California, a bit of the old “third degree” helped secure a confession that Northcott was not successful in repudiating.
Shortly before Northcott and his mother were to stand trial, Sarah Louisa pleaded guilty to one count of murder in return for a promise by the state not to seek the death penalty. When Northcott learned of his mother’s deal, he threw a temper tantrum, jail guards told the press.
The trial was a perfunctory affair except for Northcott’s grandstanding and he was convicted of three counts of murder for the deaths of the Winslow boys and the unidentified Mexican youth. He was slated to stand trial later for Walter Collins’s murder.
Northcott squeezed every bit of notoriety out of his crimes as he could. He remained confident that the conviction would be overturned on appeal, and when that failed, he hinted that he could lead authorities to the final graves of his victims. The searches proved fruitless.
“Well, I just had to send you on another wild goose chase before I was through,” Northcott said to police, a smirk on his face.
On the day before he was to be hanged, Northcott agreed to see the mother of Walter Collins, who wanted to know if he killed her little boy. Northcott kept Christine Collins waiting for several hours before he denied murdering Walter.
In the end, Northcott’s bravado failed him. On October 2, 1930, he was led to the gibbet, whimpering and blindfolded because he said he could not stand to view the gallows. He collapsed as he was taken from the death cell and had to be supported by two guards.
His final words as the black hood and noose were put over his head were “don’t, don’t.”
The last bit of poetic justice came right before the executioner pulled the trap lever. Northcott’s legs gave way and he began to collapse just as the trap sprang. His collapse took the slack out of the rope, and as a result his fall was too short to snap his neck.
It took him 11 minutes to strangle to death.

I read that one gentleman who was an attendee to his hanging actually fainted.

Last Steps and Last Words on Death Row

SAN QUENTIN, Calif.

The most difficult hanging was that of Gordon Stewart Northcott, who with his mother kidnaped and killed young boys after sexually assaulting them. On his last morning, Northcott began screaming and trembling. His hands shook fiercely as they were strapped together. "Will it hurt?" he asked softly. Told that no one had ever complained, he asked for a blindfold so he would not have to see the gallows. He was dragged into the gallows room, pleading with guards, "Please -- don't make me walk so fast." Most condemned climbed the 13 steps to the platform. Northcott had to be hauled up a step at a time, moaning louder at each step. Seconds before the trap was sprung, Northcott screamed, "A prayer -- please, say a prayer for me."

Gordon Stewart Northcott points with a pencil to a chicken house at his ranch where the state contends one of his alleged boy victims was slain. Undersheriff Rayburn, left, and Deputy Brown, right, keep him closely guarded as the trial jury inspects the ranch.

he Jury in the case of the Murders

Los Angeles Times file photo

Prosecutors asked for an all-male jury, saying that the evidence would be too gruesome for any woman.

Los Angeles Times file photo

Gordon Northcott ignores his attorneys and argues with the judge, Dec. 5, 1928.

Los Angeles Times file photo

In going through the photographs from the Gordon Northcott case, I'm struck by how different Northcott looks from one image to another. Sometimes he appears thoughtful, even bookish. In others, he looks quite demonic. In the undated picture above, probably taken at San Quentin, he seems sensitive and reflective.

Los Angeles Times file photo

At Kamloops, B.C., Sgt. Fraser of the British Columbia Provincial Police, left, escorts Gordon Northcott to Vancouver after Northcott was captured in Vernon, B.C.. The Times published this photo Sept. 23, 1928.

Here he looks like a young writer & here, he looks demonic.

Los Angeles Times file photo

C.F. Rayburn, left, and Jack Brown in the drawing room of the Southern Pacific's Owl train as they escort Gordon Northcott to San Quentin, where he was hanged.

Confession to murdering the mexican youth

Los Angeles Times file photo

Los Angeles Times file photo

Gordon Stewart Northcott is shown in one of the automobiles which he is declared to have used in his alleged criminal expeditions. A man to whom he sold one of his cars reported finding stains resembling blood in the rear compartment. (His car is shown parked next to a dome-shaped restaurant with an open window facing the parking lot.)

Authorities have termed Gordon Stewart Northcott an "ape man," and Sanford Clark has described him as being "covered with hair." A letter and photo found in the Northcott home show, according to investigators, that Northcott worried about this asserted condition.

Northcott sitting in his cell at the Los Angeles County Jail on December 1, 1928, the cell which was occupied by William Edward Hickman, the "Fox". Here he was relentlessly questioned. He said, "I'm a misfit, and once a misfit always a misfit."

Gordon Stewart Northcott whiles away his hours in jail December 4, 1928, by playing cards alone and trying to read his future in the way the cards fall. He had recently confessed that nine boys were slain on the "murder farm," five by his own hand. He blames one killing on Sanford Clark. In his right hand he holds a fateful card, the joker. "There's always a joker in the game when I play," he said.

On the ranch

Deputy District Attorney Redwine says Northcott confessed that he murdered a Mexican boy in the farm house.

Northcott, center, is shown shackled to Constable F. R. Rigby of the Canadian police. At the right is Corporal Walker Cruickshank, also a member of the Canadian police force. Northcott arrived in Los Angeles November 30, 1928, and was placed in the cell Hickman occupied at the County Jail.

[Hephaestion]

Click on the link:http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...ire&id=6480307
On the ABC news site at the top is a very interesting news report, which takes you to the Northcott´s House. Have a watch - you won´t believe. Not only is Northcott´s house still standing but it is occuppied by another family. It was never tornd down. And what´s worse is that since the know one told them what happened there and only recently due to the publicity of the movie did they find out. What a nice surprise.


Before


After

Silvia Flores/The Press-Enterprise

Riverside historian Steve Lech, a consultant on “Changeling,” was able to locate the still-standing home where Northcott lived when he committed the “chicken coop murders.”

Angelina Jolie's new film "Changeling," centers around her son who goes missing. But, the true story behind the mystery has connections in the Inland Empire, where the town of Mira Loma is now buzzing over the 80-year-old case. In "Changeling," Angelina Jolie plays a Los Angeles woman whose son goes missing in 1928. The boy police find and return to her turns out not to be her son at all.
While the movie focuses on corruption and mistakes made by police, the story's core has roots in the Inland Empire. The thought is her son was actually murdered at a ranch in Wineville, at the home of serial killer and pedophile Gordon Northcott.
Northcott's house still stands in present-day Mira Loma. That thought sends chills up resident Glenda Leyva's spine because she lives in that very house.

Cuevas: Writer James Jeffery Paul spent more than a decade exhuming Northcott's life. Some of it parallels the life of Walter Collins.

Both had mothers who would do anything for their sons. But only Northcott's mother possessed the kind of love that could hide her son's unspeakable crimes.

Paul: And then he brought Walter Collins back, and after a few days, she told Stewart, "This little boy, you've kept him here too long. We've really got to get rid of him." And he said, "OK, mom. I'll shoot him." And she said, "No, no no! That'll make too much noise. Someone will hear. Use an ax."

And then she took Sanford's hand and Stewart's and said "we've got to each strike a blow so that if we're caught we'll all share equally in the guilt." And it was she who struck the death blow. It was she who killed Walter.

Cuevas: The Northcotts' little house of horrors crashed down around them when Sanford escaped and led authorities to the graves of his uncle's victims. Before they could get there, Northcott snatched the bodies from the earth and incinerated them. Police still found enough to hang him for murder.

[Car passing]

Cuevas: Wineville tried to bury its bloody past. It changed its name to Mira Loma. A handful of horse stalls and backyard poultry farmers still hold their ground against a crush of new development.

Steve Lech: Yeah, that's the original house. Where that window is with the air conditioner, that was the door...

Cuevas: The Northcott ranch was a forgotten nightmare until a Riverside County historian, Steve Lech, found it.

Lech: Well, when I looked at assessor's maps, all of these lots have been re-subdivided. This is lot whatever number, and there's a lot line going through it. And apparently it was this lot over here that was part of it.

Cuevas: The rundown, stucco colored A-frame looks much as it did 80 years ago. The occupants knew nothing of the murders – until Hollywood producers came around scouting locations for the film "The Changeling."

Naomi Alvarez: I was so like, "Oh my God, this can't be true!" Like, "Yeah. Right. Not my house!" My jaw dropped when my neighbor told me.

Cuevas: Twenty-five-year-old Naomi Alvarez lives with her husband and son in a bungalow on the Northcott ranch. Her parents bought the property and the house 20 years ago – but her dad refused to move in.

Alvarez: No, he didn't want to live in that front house. And he doesn't know why. So my dad waited a whole year to build this, so we could live here, but not in that house. So, I mean, I've never had any experience, like, you know, ghostly stuff or...

My neighbor has. Her daughter, like, saw a man in a dark suit next to her mom while she was babysitting her two boys. And she's like, (gasps) oh!

Cuevas: We find that neighbor, Betty Sanchez. She says for years, her daughter saw things in the house – like that man in the dark suit.

Sanchez: She jumped back, and she was like, afraid to say, and as she left the house, she goes, "You know what? When I was at your house, it creeped me out. I opened the door, and there was a man sitting on your couch. And he had his hair parted to the side. He stood up and he looked at me in the face, and he was smiling."

Cuevas: Sanchez was convinced the apparition was Northcott after seeing his picture in a magazine. The experience has chilled the Sanchez family to the bone, but they're trying to make peace with the ghosts of the past.

Paul: Seems strangely familiar. I almost feel I know this place.

Cuevas: For James Jeffrey Paul, this visit was a way to put flesh on the bones of a ghost story that he's lived with for years.

Paul: The bad feelings that were here... If people can really pick up on such things, I'm, I don't have that gift, and it's probably just as well that I don't. But it's, is very strange just being here and like I said I've been here so often in my head that I can picture it happening here.

Cuevas: In 1929, Stewart Northcott was convicted of killing three boys. His mother took the rap for the murder of Walter Collins – whose body was never found. Northcott went to the gallows at San Quentin prison in 1930.

Still Standing
Steve Lech, president of the Riverside Historical Society, has done a significant amount of research into the Northcott case and served as a consultant on the Eastwood film.
Using property records and historic photos, Lech has been able to locate the Northcott home, which still stands on Wineville Avenue in Mira Loma.
Lech said a "Changeling" production crew visited the site with him in 2007. In interviews, Eastwood said he had visited the home but did not talk to anyone there.
Last week Lech visited the property and for the first time met Noemi Alvarado, whose father, Ramon Benavides, bought the property about 20 years ago.
Alvarado, 24, said her father had heard someone had committed suicide on the property, but knew nothing about the "chicken coop murders."
Alvarado said she didn't learn about the connection until a friend called earlier this month after reading an article about the murder in a local magazine and recognized the house in historical photos.
"It's just mind-boggling," Alvarado said.
Phillip and Betty Sanchez own the half-acre property next door, which was part of the original Northcott chicken ranch.

Story continues below

Silvia Flores/The Press-Enterprise

Noemi Alvarado, 24, of Mira Loma, says it’s “mind-boggling” that the house she grew up in on Wineville Avenue was the site of such monstrous crimes. She and her father only found out about the property’s history because of publicity about the new movie based on the case.

Betty Sanchez said she learned of her property's connection to the case about five years ago when the elderly friend of a neighbor said it was the site of what he called the "Wineville murders."
That may explain "incidents" that have occurred through the years, Betty Sanchez said, including tapping on a curio cabinet and the sound of someone trying the deadbolt lock on the front door.
"About a month ago we heard someone trying to unlock the door," she said.
Also about a month ago, her daughter saw the image of a young, slender man sitting on the couch. There have been other sightings of the same young man through the years.
Despite that, Betty Sanchez said she has no desire to move.
"We've been here 20 years," she said.
Alvarado said that as the mother of a 4-year-old boy, she can't help but think about the terror Northcott's young victims felt while imprisoned in chicken coops on the property.
"I look at my son and I can't imagine anything like that happening to him," she said. "They were just little kids. It's all so sad."

1. noemi alvarado Says:
   October 18th, 2008 at 5:11 pm ok..HI my name is noemi alvarado and today my neighbor came over with papers from a local news magazine..i live in 633* wineville ave, mira loma , ca
   The house that those murders and the guy lived in…im totallly freakin out because ive lived here for about 20 years roughly - so im just reading up on what happend here in this property..i also heard clint eastwood knocked on my door..and i wasnt home! omg im reading it and my jaw dropped!
   Ok well i hope someone can help me im lookin for more info about this property and wondering where the boys were barried at. K thanks
   - noemi

Eastwood found the real Northcott ranch still in existence in Mira Loma in Riverside County. In 1930, the citizens of Wineville changed the name of their farming community to Mira Loma, to get rid of the notoriety caused by the Northcott murders.
"It was creepy," says the veteran director-actor, who had been taken there by a historian from the Riverside Historical Society. "It looks exactly the same, though the house has been slightly modified. We went around back and there were these chicken coops."
The coops are where Northcott kept and murdered his victims. "I don't know if they were the same ones, but they were old, very rustic chicken coops," Eastwood says. No one appeared to be home, but Eastwood decided not to knock on the door. He didn't know how the occupants would feel about having Clint Eastwood show up on their doorstep and announce they lived in the former home of a notorious child killer. "I didn't want to intrude on these people's life," he says.

I don´t know if this was the altar Gordon Northcott was refering too, where Walter Collins was murdered. Since the investigators photographed it must have some significance.

Prison Warden Clinton T. Duffy later wrote that Northcott told him he’d killed “18 or 19, maybe 20” young men and boys. Duffy wrote a book about the death sentences he’d carried out, “88 Men and 2 Women.”
After Northcott’s execution, in his cell Duffy found a crudely drawn map of the ranch, which had acquired the newspaper nickname “murder farm.” In one margin, Northcott had written, “I am not guilty,” but he had drawn coffin-shaped boxes and written, “If you will look here you will find what you want.”
Duffy mailed the map to Riverside investigators, but they found nothing. Apparently the map was Northcott’s last hoax.
But six weeks after Northcott was hanged, a Hesperia trapper found the remains of a youth in the desert near the ranch. The body was male, from 12 to 15 years old, and was believed to be another Northcott victim. It was never identified.
The macabre case exhausted Wineville, which had had its fill of bad publicity. Weary townsfolk changed its name to Mira Loma.

[Mella]

Thanks for the info Hephaestion.

It's one of those movies where after you've watched, you just want to know more. I had the same with the Amityville Horror, Umit and I spent some time researching that after we'd seen it.

At the end of Changeling, they give you a false sense of hope that somewhere out there, Walter was still alive, I was abit upset to read that he was definitely killed by Northcott.

[margaret smith]

Yes i would also like to say a big thank you to Chris you made it all very interesting to read

[lorim]

Thanks so much for all your info Heph

Just watched the film this evening then logged on here to read all...

Thanks again...

[Mavi]

great research Chris, I found the film a little too disturbing, mothers instinct, has that effect on me....I try to steer away from heartbreak...

[beaconmike]

Dear Hephaestion;

WOW, what an incredible amount of work you have done on the historical version of the film Changeling.

I have a few questions that I am interested in your opinions about.

Do you believe that any boys escaped from the Chicken-coop (including Walter), as depicted in the David Clay scene in the movie?

I know that the historical record indicates that a boy came forward 5 years after the Northcott execution and the police thought he had been murdered at the chicken-coop. Do you have any idea what the name of that boy was?

What is your opinion of Sanford Clark, in that, if the movie is true, Sanford had to know whether or not there were ever any boys that ever escaped from the chicken-coop, and it just does not pass my litmus test that here is Sanford Clark testifying about which boys were murdered, which boys were never at the ranch, his own molestation, him helping authorities dig up bodies, which boys were murdered where they are buried, and Sanford who knows that he is going to serve some kind of punishment for his role, and that Sanford in all of these confessions forgetsto tell the authorities, that some of the boys escaped and might be alive, or that somehow Sanford forgetsto tell the authorities that some of the boys almost escaped but were caught.

If Sanford really had that information, and intentionally chose as a young man to never tell Chrstine that her son had escaped, or had escaped, but they caught him again, then he is as guilty of the moral crime of silence that his uncle was when the uncle refused to divulge any further information to Mrs. Collins the day before he was hung.

What are your thoughts on the escaped boys...........fact or fiction, and again, thanks for the wonderful information that you are providing.

When this upcoming book on Sanford Clark is released in several months, it is going to be interesting to see if Mr Clark ever speaks about any escaped boys.

[Hephaestion]

Originally Posted by beaconmike

Dear Hephaestion;

WOW, what an incredible amount of work you have done on the historical version of the film Changeling.

Hi and welcome to the forum Beaconmike. I can´t take credit for anything, most of the information is available on the net. I wanted to add all the links where I had found all this information. But by the time I had finished posting about the Northcott´s I was feeling rather depressed. I even had reoccurring nightmares at night so I had to stop. But I will post all the links soon.

Originally Posted by beaconmike

I have a few questions that I am interested in your opinions about.

Do you believe that any boys escaped from the Chicken-coop (including Walter), as depicted in the David Clay scene in the movie?

No. Sanford Clark had to swing the axe and kill Walter Collins in early April 1928. A month later the Winslow Brothers were kidnapped and Sanford Clark was forced at gun point to brain both brothers. They were buried alive - once again Sanford Clark had to do Gordon´s dirty work. During the trial Gordon cross examined his nephew on the killings and asked what sound the boys had made as they were being burried. "It was an awful sound" Sanford testified.

Gordon had kept the three boys at the farm for too long and Sara Northcott (Gordon´s mother) insisted that they should be killed than be released. Death by shot gun was out of the question as it would alert the neighbours.

I didn´t include the story about the Winslow brothers has I found the case to disturbing and I wanted to just finish with Gordon. What was strange was that the Winslow boys actually wrote letters back to their parents during their incarceration at the chicken ranch. You can find the a photo of the letter at the LA public library just type in Gordon Northcott.

Then there was the case of the headless Mexican youth, who Gordon Northcott killed before he abducted Sanford from Canada.

Gordon Northcott was a sadist, killing wasn´t his thrill. There were no further murders after the Winslow brothers.

Originally Posted by beaconmike

I know that the historical record indicates that a boy came forward 5 years after the Northcott execution and the police thought he had been murdered at the chicken-coop. Do you have any idea what the name of that boy was?

No Mike, I have never heard of that boy. I know that happened in the movie. Do you have a link to this information?

Originally Posted by beaconmike

What is your opinion of Sanford Clark, in that, if the movie is true, Sanford had to know whether or not there were ever any boys that ever escaped from the chicken-coop, and it just does not pass my litmus test that here is Sanford Clark testifying about which boys were murdered, which boys were never at the ranch, his own molestation, him helping authorities dig up bodies, which boys were murdered where they are buried, and Sanford who knows that he is going to serve some kind of punishment for his role, and that Sanford in all of these confessions forgetsto tell the authorities, that some of the boys escaped and might be alive, or that somehow Sanford forgetsto tell the authorities that some of the boys almost escaped but were caught.

I don´t think that the scene in the movie were all these boys are gathered inside the chicken coop is truthful to the real events.
Clint Eastwood did take some artistic liberties with this movie.

I have read that before Sanford and Walter, Gordon might have run some kind of a pedophile ring where men would visit his ranch. But all the boys were released again.

Originally Posted by beaconmike

If Sanford really had that information, and intentionally chose as a young man to never tell Chrstine that her son had escaped, or had escaped, but they caught him again, then he is as guilty of the moral crime of silence that his uncle was when the uncle refused to divulge any further information to Mrs. Collins the day before he was hung.

Sanford had testified about Walter Collins. The investigators found a shoe belonging to Walter at the ranch.

Christine Collins clinged to the hope that Walter was alive to keep her sanity perhaps. For some reason she must have blocked out the evidence.

Ultimately both Gordon and Sara were unreliable sources in court. Gordon kept changing his story and he enjoyed all the attention and notoriety. He was clearly insane and got a sadistic kick in playing with people´s heads. Christine Collins unfortunately being one of his last victims.

Originally Posted by beaconmike

What are your thoughts on the escaped boys...........fact or fiction, and again, thanks for the wonderful information that you are providing.

When this upcoming book on Sanford Clark is released in several months, it is going to be interesting to see if Mr Clark ever speaks about any escaped boys.

Yes, but I can´t imagine Sanford having gone into to many details with his adopted Grandchild. I hope he managed to get some peace but it must have haunted him everyday of his life.

But I hope there will be some more information about him.

There are a lot of loose ends and we will probably never know everything. Cyrus Northcott is another enigma, I think it´s strange that he was so terrified of his own son that he didn´t report him to the police. He must have known what was going on - just the look on Sanford´s face would have revealed something horrible was happening.