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How Democracy Works In Turkey

Discussion in 'Free Bench-Free Chat' started by Lez Zetli, Nov 22, 2011.

  1. Umit Administrator

    i am hardly seeing any of them on TV, beside they cant jail them all, can they?
    what happened to "Ugur Dundar"? Any answer?
    Do you know why Banu Guven fired from NTV? Do you know the president threatened the news media owners?
    Why Nedim Sener in jail? Ahmet Şık? The president said that a book can be more harmful than a bomb, thats why they are in jail. Did you know that?

    do you have any non-delusional answer to those questions?
    Do you have any answers about what i wrote about Izmir - Kusadasi CHP Belediyes which was response to your post actually?
    kedikop and Steve B like this.
  2. gaman100 Kusadasi Fan

    Maybe you are right Umit. It's just the way things look from Denmark. Sometimes it looks a little different from the outside. It's like when I hear Turkish news about what is happening in Denmark.
    Yes, I know how the roads are in Izmir and Ankara. In Ankara, they transformed fromtrails to highways through the city. This may be because they do not get as many resources as CHP cities. It would not surprise me.
    I've seen how Ankara, Konya and Kayseri has evolved. Compared with, for example,Edirne and Canakkale. But it may be due to favoritism of AKP cities.
    Umit likes this.
  3. Umit Administrator

    Thank you for your answer...
    what about my other questions? Do you know who is Ugur Dundar? Are you a Turkish? I noticed that you are using a Turkish keyboard.
  4. ludwig van Kusadasi Connoisseur

    I have to confess that I find Turkish Politics contusing. The divisions found in western democracies are relatively easy to understand being based essentially in economics but from discussions with my Turkish friends they talk of other divisions. There is obviously the ethnic division as the land occupied by Turkey takes in lands of people who were part of an empire and who wish to be separated from that empire. Then there is the secular and theocratic division and the cultural division by what my friends called Macedonians and Turks. I would love a definitive description.

    What I can fathom from this morass is that the AKP appears to have a long term goal of creating a one party state based on a Gulenist model of liberal finance and social conservatism. A bit like Ron Paul in the USA. They are taking a Fabian approach of gradual destruction of all opposition. The courts seem to be their main method of removing opposition. First the Armed Forces and then the power base of opposition parties. Now this analysis may be complete and utter rubbish but were I a Turkish lover of democracy I would be extremely concerned by the actions of the AKP.
    ronzeus, gaman100, Umit and 1 other person like this.
  5. Fleur Kusadasi Connoisseur

    Turkish politics are very complicated as you say Ludwig and I for one hold my hand up and agree that it is not easy to get at the truth, but one thing I do know, the political system, the judiciary, the military, the police and tax system need a complete overhaul.
    Turkish people have lived in fear for far too long and had no rights and there needs to be more reforms.
    The AKP are by no means perfect, but they have made huge inroads to improving people's lives.
    I do not approve of gagging the press and media, this is a fatal mistake in my opinion and politicians must learn that they will always get flak from other countries and people within their own and must learn to accept this and reply to criticism with dignity not yelling as they then lose the plot.
  6. Steve B Kusadasi Connoisseur

    The muzzling of oppostion via the courts, and other means has always been the downfall of all empires, and the AKP will be no different, the people will speak with one voice, hopefully sooner rather then later, and with a new, transparent political party totally involving the people to achieve greater prosperity and a voice in goverment for all.
    Umit likes this.
  7. kedikop Kusadasi Addict

    Very well written Steve, I applaud you .....
    Steve B and AlanK like this.
  8. gaman100 Kusadasi Fan

    I´m not using a Turkish keyboard, hard to find in Denmark!.Yes i´m Turkish and proud of it. Yes I know Ugur Dundar from the Arena programs and as ankerman at Star TV, but i don´t know what happened to him, but you do?

    I agree with you Fleur. I might sound like I'm a fan of the AKP. But I just can not remember that conditions in Turkey have been better before, either economically or politically. And I can not see any alternative at the moment. I remember those times with over 100% inflation, 1 Danish crown was more than 3 times more valuable than the year before. Those were good days for foreigners but not Turks.
    Governments changed more often than I change my toothbrush :).
    Fleur likes this.
  9. Lez Zetli Kusadasi Expert

    I do agree that the AKP has introduced a lot of beneficial things to Turkey in the last few years. But just remember that most dictatorships do this at the beginning of their time; it's later that the people wake up and pay the real price.
  10. Umit Administrator

    Yes, i know what happening to Ugur Dundar, theres no any news media owner that dare to hire him. They are scared to hire him because of the government. Who cares we have better roads if we dont have freedom?
    kibris and Steve B like this.
  11. Steve B Kusadasi Connoisseur

    A shame about Ugur Dundar Umit, he really is the most honest, well spoken and trusted newsman in all of Turkey. A month ago he was on a tv show being interviewed, and it was sad to hear his story, and how because of his views and commentaries against the growing powers of the AKP and their witch hunt against any serious opposition, he was let go by Star TV and no station will hire him, the black listing of people who speak the truth here in Turkey continues.
    Umit likes this.
  12. Steve B Kusadasi Connoisseur

    Now for another real kick in the teeth to democracy in Turkey. The mayor of Izmir, who is extremely popular and has won the last two elections by a landslide, and a staunch member of the CHP, has now been charged by the "special prosectuor" with many crimes, including probably bringing cold weather and snow to Istanbul and Ankara, against the wishes of the AKP. The "prosecutor", (and I use that word very loosely) has asked for a sentence of get this, 397 years for his crimes, when he is found guilty (remember, this embicle is probably a AKP card carrying member and probably from Istanbul), and make no doubt, he will be found guilty, because he is CHP, and maybe had to do things differently because the city gets little or know money or support from the national goverment because the population of Izmir always rejects the AKP at election time. I emailed this story to a friend of mine who works as a lawyer in the crown prosecution office back in Canada, and he laughed and cried at the same time, laughed because of the stupidty, as a prosecutor of ever even asking for such a sentence, and cried, because it shows such a lack of democratic values, fairness and lack of transparent openess and trust in the judicial system that such a sentence could ever be entertained by the head of prosecutions. He said he will show it to his collegues tomorrow, and he can just imagine their reaction. Such outrageous show trials, raids, arrests, etc just continue to ensure how the AKP is laughed at in western democratic goverments, and how Turkey cannot be taken seriously, to the shame of it's people because of the growing dictatorship within this country where the AKP controls the police, judiciary and the press. It will just ensure that either he, or whoever runs in the next election for the CHP for mayor of Izmir, will win with an even bigger vote.

    AlanK likes this.
  13. ludwig van Kusadasi Connoisseur

    This sounds a very middle class plea. The poor want better roads etc because to them freedom is an alien concept. They are kept in a position of servitude by their economic position. However you are right, Napoleon, Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin all improved their nations infrastructure but eventually brought ruin to their countries. Democracy has many faults but the one benefit it bestows is the ability of the people to sack their government. This is the ultimate check on power. The AKP by its targeting and silencing of opposition shows that it finds democracy an inconvenience.
  14. Umit Administrator

    Steve B likes this.
  15. gaman100 Kusadasi Fan

    He is not that good Steve. But It´s not Ugur Dundar´s fault. In Turkey, journalists speak for the channel's political sense. I have seen many journalist change their minds after a channel switch.
    It can be said about all journalists more or less.

    Also poorest, unfortunately.
  16. Steve B Kusadasi Connoisseur

    AlanK likes this.
  17. gaman100 Kusadasi Fan

    Sorry Steve but, do you read other than newspapers then Hurriyet. Each time you quote a newspaper it's Hurriyet. They are not exactly government supporters. It's healthy to read other newspapers also, for example. Sabah, Zaman, Milliyet and be critical about what you read.
    Fleur likes this.
  18. Lez Zetli Kusadasi Expert

    It's irrelevant which newspaper this was reported in; it refers to the report "Reporters Without Borders" (RSF) World Press Freedom Index for 2011 which is entirely independent of the Hurriyet and is hardly likely to be reported in government supporting newspapers, is it?
    Steve B likes this.
  19. gaman100 Kusadasi Fan

    You are right about that one:)
    Steve B and Lez Zetli like this.
  20. Geir Konrad Fugleberg Kusadasi Explorer

    So fantastic. There are people criticising Chp who are not in prison. Good for yoy.